Blood Elf Like Me

Ixobelle discovers that, unlike Acclaim’s Dance, in World of Warcraft being black is not that awesome.

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79 Responses to Blood Elf Like Me

  1. Raad says:

    Never thought you would like ixobelle but meh. And yeah its kind of like being a South Asian guy and logging into a long time friend’s guild’s vent and realise first hand why internet meme speaking twats more often then not are, well, racist.

  2. geldonyetich says:

    Thanks to the Internet, there’s not too many words that attention-starved little snots can use that can get rise out of people. Given the increased rarity of the alternatives, that one is attempted fairly often.

  3. soup says:

    People who play WoW are sometimes immature and downright racist? I’m shocked, SHOCKED.

    Also, “Oh, honey, don’t mind Moxxi, he’s just a white guy, and when white people get on the internet, they use the internet cloaking field in a unique way… they become anonymous, but they insist on letting everyone know they’re anonymous WHITE PEOPLE, and proceed to drag themselves back and forth in the shit trough of Trade, trying to outdo each other in complete and utter foulness.”

    Isn’t that a bit racist? Suggesting that that’s what (all) white people do.

  4. Athryn says:

    Yeah, trade chat is horrible. And racism is pretty endemic in the MMO world, anyone else remember the whole “Naga Stole My Bike” meme? heh.

  5. Jeff says:

    Sadly this is all to common in trade, and in at least one hard core raiding guild I was in. I left them within a few weeks. The gear was good but it wasn’t worth the price of my soul.

  6. Con says:

    Remember right after release when Arcadian told a joke about French people and got tempbanned?

    Good times!

  7. Viz says:

    Actually, I recall someone being permabanned for using that word in a private guild run where no complaint was filed (or at least, where all his guildmates denied filing complaints). I think the problem is not so much that Blizzard has a policy of permitting obnoxious behavior as that they don’t really have any enforcement policies whatsoever and therefore that what is done about it is just a matter of what the GM who happens to find your ticket feels like doing at that moment.

  8. D-0ne says:

    Just one of the numerous reasons I don’t play W.o.W. or allow my children to play it.

  9. VPellen says:

    I’m sorry, I detest political correctness with all my being. There’s a lot of segregation and xenophobia in the world, and getting all standoffish and uptight because somebody called you a questionable word isn’t fucking helping.

  10. GTB says:

    Here we see an example of one of the few downsides to having a game that appeals to the lowest common denominator.

    C:\>Deltree C:\Progra~1\Blizzard\Wow -y

  11. JuJutsu says:

    soup :People who play WoW are sometimes immature and downright racist? I’m shocked, SHOCKED.
    Also, “Oh, honey, don’t mind Moxxi, he’s just a white guy, and when white people get on the internet, they use the internet cloaking field in a unique way… they become anonymous, but they insist on letting everyone know they’re anonymous WHITE PEOPLE, and proceed to drag themselves back and forth in the shit trough of Trade, trying to outdo each other in complete and utter foulness.”
    Isn’t that a bit racist? Suggesting that that’s what (all) white people do.

    Soup raises blame-the-victim skill +1

  12. Raelyf says:

    @JuJutsu

    No. Soup raised a fair point – being the victim of racism doesn’t give the right to be racist. While I’d concede that racism against white people doesn’t have nearly the same power or historical context as racism against many others, it’s still wrong. He went too far in claiming that not only is anonymous internet douchebaggery somehow ‘unique’ to white people, but lumping all white people into this. He could just have easily have replaced ‘white people’ with ‘immature asshats’ and he’s have got his point across without racist connotation or stereotype.

  13. Gx1080 says:

    Well, people being assholes in the Internet isnt new, and being a minority doesnt make you an unique, inmune snowflake, if they dont call you a nigger, they call you a faggot, or a bitch, or a fucker, or….well you get the point. Besides, in the lack of a better term, that was troll bait and he tooked it. Dont feed the troll people, theres plenty of them to take his place.

  14. Slyfeind says:

    Yeah I keep all public channels off just for this reason.

  15. xzzy says:

    I usually leave general chat on, it’s pretty tame compared to trade (in the sense that the stupidity is often hilarious). I don’t know what it is about the trade channel, but it’s like a direct feed right into everyone’s stream of consciousness.

    Lesson learned? Telepathy would be the worst superpower EVER.

  16. Alex says:

    Shortly before the election I decided to revisit Asheron’s Call on Darktide. The global chat was like a cross between Fox News and a Klan meeting.

  17. Raad says:

    @Raelyf
    I’m pretty sure Ixo was taking the piss there and also lol,

    VPellen :
    I’m sorry, I detest political correctness with all my being. There’s a lot of segregation and xenophobia in the world, and getting all standoffish and uptight because somebody called you a questionable word isn’t fucking helping.

    I see your standoffish and uptightness and raise you:
    Raelyf and Soup, standing up for the rights of white people everywhere(on the internet)!
    Although you could argue that this is all Ixo’s fault because he started it.

  18. IainC says:

    VPellen :
    I’m sorry, I detest political correctness with all my being. There’s a lot of segregation and xenophobia in the world, and getting all standoffish and uptight because somebody called you a questionable word isn’t fucking helping.

    The main thing that isn’t helping is people who bleat on about political correctness because they don’t understand the impact of racism or other forms of passive-agressive harassment.

  19. hsinclair says:

    I still can’t figure out when it became cool to be super racist on the internet, but yep, there it is.

  20. Raad says:

    Ignoring the whole white pplz are teh evil thing that you lot seem so worked up about, but the point of Ixo’s post wasn’t to make white people feel bad but to kind of argue that Blizzard doesn’t generally do much about asshats. For an example, I’m pretty sure I’ve pissed off a good chunk of people on my server through spamming and numerous other misdeeds but I never got a ban. I try to be as much of an asshat as possible but its usually an angry tell then nothing. I don’t know if they actually reported me or not, many of them say they have, but nothing generally comes out of it.

  21. DoubleD says:

    Just put the guy on ignore. Wish I could do that in RL.

  22. Lewisham says:

    VPellen :
    I’m sorry, I detest political correctness with all my being. There’s a lot of segregation and xenophobia in the world, and getting all standoffish and uptight because somebody called you a questionable word isn’t fucking helping.

    Wow.

    You must be a really special person.

    This thread has a lot of “so that’s why I leave trade chat”, but that’s only a local solution on a per-player basis. Are there global solutions? Ixo says that Blizzard won’t do much… even if they banned Moxxi’s account he’ll go out and buy another copy tomorrow. What more could be done? Placing a block on the payment methods Moxxi used? That would at least force the purchase of game cards, which is very inconvenient. Place a block on “nigger” in its entirety in the game? When, when, when, do you need to say that? Not that it would stop him being abusive and offensive in other ways instead.

    Perhaps a system where if someone gets /ignored enough, they lose the right to speak in public channels. That might actually work.

    I ran an experiment for a graduate class I am in, to see if people would grief Club Penguin. Not only did they, one or two managed to reach a level that was tantamount cyberbullying. This stuff is just very easy to do. The issue of not giving idiots a voice to all is something we need to look at very, very seriously if MMOs are to grow.

  23. Raad says:

    @DoubleD
    You can’t ignore people in real life?

  24. Avecrien says:

    Trying to defer to a greater impact of racism to belittle the fact that racism is an extremely common cry of those who are, gasp, racists misses the point.
    In my life, straining to think of refuges from racism, I can come up with my home, a few churches, and college. Everywhere else, everyone else is likely to look down on anyone not like them. This is true with or without the presences of whites.
    There are big milestones that wash up from the current of a population’s prejudice, but the river is bigger even if you’re missing it for the spectacle of the hour.

    I’ve seen plenty of beaten, robbed, or hospitalized white people(or just paler than X people) that were victims of whatever group was the majority where they were at the time. I’ve never seen any of them get any justice, and I’ve seen fierce backlash for those who’d try. I have to imagine that most people defending the right to hate havent actually seen the day to day violence that sort of thing inspires.

    Political correctness is shite. The idea that we have the right to not be offended by something or someone is shite. The fact that people in America still identify by ethnicity instead of nationality is shite.
    Being an ass in WoW is awesome 😀

  25. Arkenor says:

    As I said on Ixobelle’s blog, I would be willing to pay a premium for a server where the rules of conduct are enforced properly. I shouldn’t have to do that, but it seems it is the only way I’ll ever get one.

    Lewisham :

    I ran an experiment for a graduate class I am in, to see if people would grief Club Penguin. Not only did they, one or two managed to reach a level that was tantamount cyberbullying. This stuff is just very easy to do. The issue of not giving idiots a voice to all is something we need to look at very, very seriously if MMOs are to grow.

    I’ve seen it happen in every MMO I’ve ever played recently, whoever the intended audience is. I’ve posted about some dreadful stuff I saw in Free Realms.

    Rules need to be enforced, and other players need to speak up and beat down the racists. Against bigotry, silence is acquiescence.

    Oh, and fellow white people? “They do it too.” is not a very good defense, though it is an extremely popular one.

  26. Raelyf says:

    @Raad

    I’m not really convinced he wasn’t serious, to be honest. Particularly since his post was about Blizzard letting this kind of crap slide – he seems to have just taken it as given that it that all the asshats were white people. I’m not ‘defending the rights of white people’ because they’re white – I would point out the same hypocrisy if a homosexual blogger claimed that all straight people we’re hateful anti-gay bigots. I would also be as offended as anyone if someone made the claim that other races really were inferior, or that homosexuality was ‘wrong’.

    Maybe I’m being unreasonable, but to me a troll is just a troll. Whether he’s spouting racist, homophobic, sexist or generic douche bag comments, he gets added to the ignore list and forgotten. When a serious post is made, on the other hand, which makes claims that are racist, that is – to me – a bigger issue. The fact that it’s directed towards ‘white people’ doesn’t change that. I’m not claiming that stereotypes and racism directed towards white people is as serious as those directed at minorities or other races; but that does not make them acceptable.

  27. Raad says:

    @Raelyf
    Do you honestly think that Ixobelle thinks that all racist people on the internet are whites?

    @Avecrien
    It doesn’t only happen in America, stop saying shit like that, people identify with ethnicity rather then nationality everywhere in the world.

  28. Mist says:

    I can tell you, from personal experience, that racist remarks get you suspended and eventually banned from WoW. A few years back, I had to institute a DKP penalty for anyone that got themselves suspended on a raid night for racist comments.

  29. HZero says:

    Oh come now, look at all this shocked outrage. And yet when Vanguard launched and you could only begin play with a black person the continent that represented mythic Africa, and not in the ones representing NA/EU or Asia, nobody said a word…

    It takes courage to confront an agressor, racist or otherwise, and Ixobelle has proved his. Would that the rest of us could say the same.

  30. isildur says:

    Oh look! Crypto-racism. How… totally unsurprising.

    If your comment can be rephrased as ‘I’m not a racist BUT…’, it’s probably racist.

  31. Xanthippe says:

    I’ve been a tradechat cop before, and noticed a huge difference within a day or two of sending in tickets. Racism is dealt with. Sexual comments are dealt with.

    I don’t think one can fairly blame Blizzard for trade chat being a cesspool, unless they are actually sending in tickets for bad behavior and seeing the behavior continue. That has not been my experience.

  32. Mortarion says:

    I’m not sure what he’s up in arms about. This is a classic example of John Gabriel’s Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

  33. Brent Michael Krupp says:

    Alex :
    Shortly before the election I decided to revisit Asheron’s Call on Darktide. The global chat was like a cross between Fox News and a Klan meeting.

    Wow, a thread complaining about bigotry and you jump to calling people that watch Fox News a bunch of crazy racists. Nice work!

  34. The Alien says:

    Trade chat can be that bad, but reporting people really does help.

    The author of that article made a pretty major mistake, though. It’s not just white people who act that way…punk kids of any race are the most likely.

    A couple of years ahead of me in Junior High School there was a Hispanic kid who decided he was a Nazi, because Hitler totally had the right idea about wiping out the lesser races.

    Even when I was a kid I was pretty sure most kids were dumb. Now, with a little more perspective, I’m sure I was right. 🙂

  35. geldonyetich says:

    Wow, a thread complaining about bigotry and you jump to calling people that watch Fox News a bunch of crazy racists.

    @Brent Michael Krupp

    As my college Anthropology teacher used to tell me, expressing outrage about social stereotyping is not nearly as beneficial as you think when sufficient research has been done to back it up.

  36. Ark says:

    Brent Michael Krupp :

    Alex :
    Shortly before the election I decided to revisit Asheron’s Call on Darktide. The global chat was like a cross between Fox News and a Klan meeting.

    Wow, a thread complaining about bigotry and you jump to calling people that watch Fox News a bunch of crazy racists. Nice work!

    He didn’t say it was racist, he said it was a cross between Fox News (a US conservative mouthpiece) and the KKK (a bunch of racists).

    That’s different than saying Fox News is racist or that Fox News is the KKK.

  37. TPRJones says:

    Ark, considering that the topic at hand is racism, I doubt that Alex was insinuating that Darktide global chat was debating the merits of smaller government.

  38. Nerd Rage says:

    I opted for the “oh my god how the fuck do I turn off a chat channel?” solution within 15 minutes of hitting The Barrens way back when. The problem was not the racism, or misogyny, or /b/ memes, it’s the fact that I felt like I had just gained the most horrible super power ever conceived. I was able to simultaneously listen to every single conversation in a junior high lunchroom, in a world where lunch lasts all day.

  39. Alex says:

    Apologies, I did not mean that Fox News’ position was racist. Their coverage does seem aimed at people’s fears and prejudices however. I’m referring to the “Barrack HUSSEIN Obama is a secret Muslim Arab who has brunch with terrorists” type sentiment.

  40. geldonyetich says:

    It sort of loops back into the whole shtick of whether media influences the masses or is merely a mirror of the masses.

    Some would say that Fox News pushes an agenda of ignorance upon a certain denomination of the American public that watches them. Others would say that Fox News simply caters to a certain denomination of the American public that has an agenda of ignorance which was already there.

    Like any other unresolved binary problem, the answer is probably in the middle and slightly off to the side. It’s mostly a matter of how many people have learned through life experience that it’s better to fear the unknown – it may well have teeth. Other people have learned that if you don’t seek to learn of the unknown, the teeth may come to get you sooner or later whether or not your head is planted in the ground.

    Now, if you were a person looking to find somebody to exploit by telling them exactly what they want to hear while feeling confidence they’re generally too afraid to look down and see you picking their pocket, which would you go after? In my mind, this is the sieve that drives the separation of the political parties. (Granted, there will be “bad seeds” on either side as no politician is a complete absolute by simply being human in the given instance.)

    The kid saying “nigger” over barrens chat is a very minor reflection of the easily exploited portion of America. Chances are, he picked it up from parents whose heads are so deeply into the ground that they think racial bias is still in vogue. There’s honestly not enough difference for there to be a reason to have bias based on color of skin, it’s just forcing an extra class difference out of pure egotism.

  41. Not Richard Garriott says:

    “Internet Whiteboy Syndrome”

    Railing against racism while being a racist yourself isn’t winning you any points.

    [Massive derail edited by management]

  42. ixobelle says:

    yeah, point taken on the whole ‘calling out white people’ thing and that in itself being racist, but pointing to that and then sticking your fingers in your ears and neenerneenerneener-ing is a bit silly.

    I didn’t explicitly put it in the post (and probably should have) but a lot of this is usually in the form of:

    10: DIE NIGGERS LOL
    20: WHITE POWA!
    30: GOTO 10

    I’m a white guy myself, with a japanese wife, and half white/half japanese son. The amount of asian bashing (mostly chinese, but occasionally all lumped together in one big pot), black bashing, and (oh gee really?) gay and female crapping upon is just silly.

    We get it.

    I’m not trying to rescue wow (as I mentioned about 8 times), I’m just saying, when it immediately goes to ‘lol ur a dum nigger, die plx’ in private tells, it’s a bit overboard.

    Telling the internet to grow up is silly, I was just posting it. Not every documentary needs to have some grand solution. Some are just ‘look at how fucked up this situation has become’ kind of things.

  43. Queso says:

    This is a case of internet dorks trying to be edgy.

    If they wanted to be real edgy, lets see them try to pull this shit in front of a live audience like Micheal Richards (aka Kramer), because we know how well that goes over.

    “Hatred is the stillborn child
    of ignorance and boredom”

  44. geldonyetich says:

    “Hatred is the stillborn child
    of ignorance and boredom”

    Now, now, this is supposed to be about racism, not Internet forums.

  45. TPRJones says:

    geldonyetich :
    The kid saying “nigger” over barrens chat is a very minor reflection of the easily exploited portion of America. Chances are, he picked it up from parents whose heads are so deeply into the ground that they think racial bias is still in vogue.

    I doubt that’s what’s really going on in most cases. These kids are just looking for attention, and the quick way to get attention is to piss people off. There’s not all that many ways to shock and upset people anymore, but flagrant public racism still works. So that’s what they do.

    The only way to stop it is if people stopped being upset by it, but I’m not sure that’s a realistic (or even desirable) solution.

  46. Ritchian says:

    So I’ve been racking my brain, trying to come up with a suitable comment to leave on this posting and what it cross-posts to. Perhaps some sort pseudo-intellectual dissertation on how the perceived cloak of anonymity the Internet provides give many people an outlet to say things, hateful or otherwise, that would never be uttered by them in reality? Perhaps a pointed comment on how sad it is that such blatant racism exists in today’s world?

    No. No, the thing that keeps echoing in my brain over and over the more I think about it is as follows:

    Stupid people are stupid.

    I don’t think anything else I could possibly add could sum up my thoughts on this issue much more than that phrase.

  47. geldonyetich says:

    TPRJones :

    geldonyetich :
    The kid saying “nigger” over barrens chat is a very minor reflection of the easily exploited portion of America. Chances are, he picked it up from parents whose heads are so deeply into the ground that they think racial bias is still in vogue.

    I doubt that’s what’s really going on in most cases. These kids are just looking for attention, and the quick way to get attention is to piss people off. There’s not all that many ways to shock and upset people anymore, but flagrant public racism still works. So that’s what they do.
    The only way to stop it is if people stopped being upset by it, but I’m not sure that’s a realistic (or even desirable) solution.

    My first post agrees with you. I kinda realized after I made that post that I was probably giving the kid too much credit, but the topic had turned to the evils of Fox News.

  48. Sjofn says:

    I’ve had trade (and why IS it trade, anyway? Is it because it’s all the cities at once?) turned off for a while now, although not due to racist/sexist bullshit, just due to general dipshittery (it’s REALLY spammy and full of useless crap on my server, I dunno if it’s taken a racist/sexist turn though). That it’s that bad on some servers (perhaps even mine!) is depressing as hell.

  49. Triforcer says:

    As others have said, I don’t know if this is “racism” so much as “say the thing most guaranteed to outrage people.” Its like going into an Internet community for people struggling with weight issues and constantly spewing weight-related insults.

    I guess you could define racism to include “willingness” to use extremely offensive slurs, but at any rate I think the trashspeak in WoW is less indicative of deep-seated, genuine racism and more indicative of “I’m a socially maladjusted 15 year old on the Internet.”

    Either way, though, completely offensive and unacceptable.

  50. Raad says:

    @ixobelle
    Were you role-playing a black guy or are you actually black? Because if you’re white then lol, watch all those outraged white dudes over you racist remarks go all “oh that’s fine then, he is white”. And that applies to every(race)one! YAY!

    Ritchian :
    Stupid people are stupid.

    ALL people are stupid, once you accept this, everything makes sense. Try it!

  51. The Alien says:

    I didn’t figure Ixobelle was black, I seem to recall something from the article that suggested that.

    My point remains: Oh, the stupid behind the mask. Yes, you have actual racist idiots, but you also have foulmouthed kids.

    Report, report, report, report the stupid people.

    It really does make the stupid go away. It may take several strikes or something like that, but if everyone were more vigilant the experience would improve.

    Just don’t say that you’re reporting someone. That just invites the “cry more n00b” trolls. Report them and get on with life.

  52. fatbutt says:

    I love saying “reported” when someone’s being a dumb racist or whatever. There’s always some guy who’s all “heh. suk my dik u gay noob faggot.” If you’re lucky the first guy freaks out and makes things a whole lot worse for himself. Warms my blackened heart.

  53. JuJutsu says:

    “Just don’t say that you’re reporting someone. That just invites the “cry more n00b” trolls. Report them and get on with life.”

    I’m with fatbutt. Not only is it personally satisfying to let some @sshat know that a report was sent but I think it’s good to let others know that someone is willing to report @sshattery. As for the ‘cry more n00b’ trolls, I could care less it’s just more fodder for ignore.

  54. sinij says:

    Someone got trolled. Hard. On the intrawebs.

    More at 11.

  55. geldonyetich says:

    @sinij
    Through extension, so have we all.

    Sometimes it’s hard to say where the line is drawn between being trolled and just having too much time on our hands to bitch.

  56. Wanderer says:

    By and large, the asshats doing this kind of thing are simply brats who want attention. All they care about is how many people they can get wound up. If they could piss off massive numbers of people by saying they liked cheese, they’d do it. It’s all about the attention, about getting people to react to THEM so they don’t have to face the fact that the world as a whole doesn’t know or care that they’re alive.

  57. Gx1080 says:

    @sinij
    Pretty much.

    Although the people with small penises that overcompensate with trolling dont deserve attention (same with the forum issue).

  58. Queso says:

    Has anyone ever picked up on the subtle racist joke in the Leeroy Jenkins Video? And that made it into an achievement.

  59. Raad says:

    @Queso
    Because only black people like teh chickenz right

  60. Tilon says:

    When you’re playing a game that any moron can learn, a community of retards is part of what you sign up for.

  61. Adam says:

    While the foul mouth kids are definitely annoying, these people with blogs where they dissect the attacks line by line, whine, feign shock, and drone on get on my nerves. It doesn’t surprise me that 11 year olds act their age, so why does it surprise anyone else? Maybe it doesn’t shock me because I have a 11 year old, but trust me I do my part when my kid acts up.

    The attack was rude and the blogger certainly didn’t deserve it, but at the same time he doesn’t deserve more than his fair share of sympathy or attention for it. Can you imagine a world where we have to tolerate not only the 11 year olds, but all their victims too? Somebody has to be an adult somewhere along the chain in order to disrupt the whine tsunami. Report it and move on with your life for goodness sake.

    This new age Twitter/blogging narcissism is getting old.

  62. Queso says:

    Raad :
    @Queso
    Because only black people like teh chickenz right

    Hey I got an idea, why dont we reinact Leeroy Jenkins by the oringal people in front of the Apollo. Since the dude that played Leeroy was white playing a black character, lets put him in Blackface. Lets all the white people on stage start swearing at that crazy coon. Then at the climax well let the dude in blackface eat some chicken.

    I bet this wont fly as racist at all.

  63. Raad says:

    @Queso
    Yes because saying you like chicken is TOTALLY on the same level as doing what you said right

  64. Wolfshead says:

    @Alex

    Alex :
    Apologies, I did not mean that Fox News’ position was racist. Their coverage does seem aimed at people’s fears and prejudices however. I’m referring to the “Barrack HUSSEIN Obama is a secret Muslim Arab who has brunch with terrorists” type sentiment.

    Firstly everything you say is entirely your opinion and utterly groundless in the absence of any proof to the contrary. Now that George Bush is gone the left is grasping for someone to hate on the right and Fox News is the convenient target.

    Do you realize that Fox News is the #1 cable news network in America? According to your logic that would would make the majority of America a nation of people full of prejudice and fear.

    Of course I daresay you would not admit that the American mainstream media has a liberal bias or that left-wing newspapers are dropping like flies every week. Of course not. All we hear is the same old “Fox News” boogeyman being trotted out at every occasion from people who have not watched even a minute of Fox News.

    Oh and by the way Barack Hussein Obama has been stressing his Muslim roots and heritage to the Muslim world in the past few months. Strangely enough that was off-limits in the election campaign as it was *gasp* RACIST!!! I guess you missed that hypocrisy.

    If you’re going to comment on the news then please try and be a bit more informed and read some actual news.

  65. Wolfshead says:

    geldonyetich :

    Some would say that Fox News pushes an agenda of ignorance upon a certain denomination of the American public that watches them. Others would say that Fox News simply caters to a certain denomination of the American public that has an agenda of ignorance which was already there.

    Very clever circular argument there but nonetheless false. Ignorant people don’t generally watch hard news networks — instead they watch Jerry Springer, soap operas and a host of inane reality TV offerings. I happen watch Fox News daily along with other networks and I resent your implication that I and the American public are ignorant for doing so.

    You could make the same silly assertions about CNN, MSNBC, Al Jazeera or the BBC World News service and the viewers that watch them.

    I think it’s very insulting, ignorant and intolerant of you to willfully mischaracterize people who happen to have conservative views as ignorant. Obviously whatever network you happen to watch must have contributed to your ignorance…right? Or perhaps you were just ignorant to start with.

    See how stupid that kind of labeling using your logic sounds?

  66. The Claw says:

    Wolfshead :
    Do you realize that Fox News is the #1 cable news network in America? According to your logic that would would make the majority of America a nation of people full of prejudice and fear.

    I’m not sure that this attempted skewering of Alex’s post worked as well as you hoped.

  67. JuJutsu says:

    Every internet thread worth it’s salt needs a post whining about others whining. Checkmark.

  68. Lewis says:

    @Wolfshead

    Note this quote:

    “In primetime, FNC commanded 55% of the cable news market share, averaging 1.4 million viewers, while CNN claimed just 32% of that audience with 828,000 viewers.”

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2004_June_29/ai_n6087812/

    So, as you can see, just because Fox News has a majority of the Americans who actually watch cable news networks, that’s still only 1.4 million people, which is not the majority of the American people.

    Most people who don’t like Fox News don’t like it because they feel there is intellectual dishonesty on some (but not all) of its shows. In other words: twisting the facts (sometimes outright lying) in order to make whatever point is on their agenda. Although you don’t have to agree, watch The Daily Show (a comedy show, yes) for some examples. Just so you know what it is specifically “the left” doesn’t like about it.

    Finally, Obama didn’t stress that some in his family are Muslims in the US because that’s not what Americans were necessarily interested in, and because networks like Fox News didn’t need any encouragement to go apeshit at any excuse. Several stories and hosts on Fox News were insinuating that Obama actually *was* Muslim, which he is not. Of course they didn’t outright say it, because it’s a lie and would get them in trouble, and they know it.

    But nice try Wolfshead.

  69. Wanderer says:

    Wolfshead :
    Do you realize that Fox News is the #1 cable news network in America? According to your logic that would would make the majority of America a nation of people full of prejudice and fear.

    Following your logic, the majority of America plays World of Warcraft.

  70. Wolfshead says:

    Lewis :
    @Wolfshead
    Note this quote:
    “In primetime, FNC commanded 55% of the cable news market share, averaging 1.4 million viewers, while CNN claimed just 32% of that audience with 828,000 viewers.”
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2004_June_29/ai_n6087812/
    So, as you can see, just because Fox News has a majority of the Americans who actually watch cable news networks, that’s still only 1.4 million people, which is not the majority of the American people.

    Let me clarify my remarks to say that it’s the majority of the network news watching American public.

    Most people who don’t like Fox News don’t like it because they feel there is intellectual dishonesty on some (but not all) of its shows. In other words: twisting the facts (sometimes outright lying) in order to make whatever point is on their agenda. Although you don’t have to agree, watch The Daily Show (a comedy show, yes) for some examples. Just so you know what it is specifically “the left” doesn’t like about it.

    And there’s no intellectual dishonesty and bias on CNN and MSNBC? Study after study on media bias including a recent Pew study has amply demonstrated this. But all we hear about is the *evil* Fox News.

    We can sit here all day and go back and forth but at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that all networks have agendas and have various biases. The difference is the degree. The fact is that that the American public seem to trust Fox News the most which is demonstrated by their dominance.

    Most people who don’t like Fox News don’t watch Fox News — instead they let other people watch it for them (i.e. comedians). I find it unfortunate that a significant segment of the younger population gets their news information and analysis from a couple of comedians on Comedy Central. That says far more about the people that watch Comedy Central then it does the people that watch Fox News.

    Finally, Obama didn’t stress that some in his family are Muslims in the US because that’s not what Americans were necessarily interested in, and because networks like Fox News didn’t need any encouragement to go apeshit at any excuse. Several stories and hosts on Fox News were insinuating that Obama actually *was* Muslim, which he is not. Of course they didn’t outright say it, because it’s a lie and would get them in trouble, and they know it.

    Again more unfair generalizations and lies about Fox News. Which hosts insinuated that Obama was a Muslim? Names please and provide airdates with their exact comments.

    You seem like an expert on Fox News. How many hours a day do you watch it may I ask? Or do you let Media Matters watch it for when you get all the anti-Fox News talking points delivered to your email box each day?

    Lots of Americans were interested in his background — just not the mainstream media who didn’t bother to vett this presidential candidate properly. Anyone who mentioned his Muslim background was labeled a racist etc.

    Obama and his handlers didn’t stress his Muslim backgrond because he wanted to win the election. Period. But suddenly it’s ok for Obama to talk about his Muslim family ties and heritage now that the Messiah has won the election and is reaching out to the Muslim “world” but it wasn’t ok for him to talk about it when he had to face the American electorate?

    I’m sorry that you aren’t honest enough to at least appreciate that hypocrisy.

  71. Wolfshead says:

    The Claw :

    Wolfshead :
    Do you realize that Fox News is the #1 cable news network in America? According to your logic that would would make the majority of America a nation of people full of prejudice and fear.

    I’m not sure that this attempted skewering of Alex’s post worked as well as you hoped.

    Thank you for your insightful contribution to this thread.

  72. Wolfshead says:

    Wanderer :

    Wolfshead :
    Do you realize that Fox News is the #1 cable news network in America? According to your logic that would would make the majority of America a nation of people full of prejudice and fear.

    Following your logic, the majority of America plays World of Warcraft.

    They don’t?!? Unbeliever!!!

  73. TPRJones says:

    Yes, Fox news is biased right-wing crap. But then all the other news channels are biased left-wing crap. Meh.

    Oh, and there’s nothing racist about Leeroy Jenkins. The character is not black. The player is not black. There are no clear racial stereotypes about the character. There is no reason to have thought he was black to begin with. That is unless you have preconceptions of your own that you read into the character, of course. In which case you should examine your own self.

  74. Lewis says:

    Wolfshead, your intellectual dishonesty and pathetic “arguments” are a perfect match for such Fox News hosts as Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and Bill O’Reilly.

  75. Rubylite says:

    Venturing into politics and race….check

    Nazi comments inc….

  76. Dave G. says:

    Wolfshead :

    The Claw :

    Wolfshead :
    Do you realize that Fox News is the #1 cable news network in America? According to your logic that would would make the majority of America a nation of people full of prejudice and fear.

    I’m not sure that this attempted skewering of Alex’s post worked as well as you hoped.

    Thank you for your insightful contribution to this thread.

    I have the feeling that The Claw’s one sentence contribution was eminently more insightful than the entirety of your contributions thus far – except, perhaps, the original comment which incited The Claw’s response. That comment says much, much indeed, about subject and speaker alike.

    I enjoy pontificating eruditely in a poncy manner.

  77. Vetarnias says:

    Dave G. :

    Wolfshead :

    The Claw :

    Wolfshead :
    Do you realize that Fox News is the #1 cable news network in America? According to your logic that would would make the majority of America a nation of people full of prejudice and fear.

    I’m not sure that this attempted skewering of Alex’s post worked as well as you hoped.

    Thank you for your insightful contribution to this thread.

    I have the feeling that The Claw’s one sentence contribution was eminently more insightful than the entirety of your contributions thus far – except, perhaps, the original comment which incited The Claw’s response. That comment says much, much indeed, about subject and speaker alike.
    I enjoy pontificating eruditely in a poncy manner.

    Yeah, you talk real good.

  78. Gx1080 says:

    You know, although talking about majorities without making an actual research its just educated guessing, the majority of America is full of prejudice and fear. Evidence of that fact is overhelming. About Fox News, i dont know, i dont watch it, but between a news channel that exagerates(any other) and one that outright lies for cash… the decision its obvious.

    Sticking to the lesser evil is an American policy (Note, im not a USA citizen so I can criticize).

    http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm

    Its not like he needed point his muslim lineage in election times, its just that, well, the muslim world isnt going to negociate with another two-faced, overweight white republican (I wouldnt).

    I wonder when the Hitler comparisons will begin?

  79. OK, that’s enough.

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