Camelot, er Warhammer Herald, er, Vault, er, LOOK IT IS A WEBSITE AND YOU GET NEW CLASSES AND STUFF

Big news in Warhammer land!

…as for the new careers, what can I say but they are both very, very cool.  Players have asked us for a year whether we would put the Choppa back in and many have asked (especially here on the Vault) that we please add the Slayer.

Mark Jacobs, not here on the Vault.

But hey, that’s not all. Darkness Falls is back! (Which is cool, I loved Legion and he loved me, especially in a stompy sort of way.)

I think it is very safe to say that DAoC’s Darkness Falls was one of the most successful addons to the game.  Over the last few months we’ve gotten a ton of feedback and requests (once again, here on the Vault) asking us to create a next-generation DF, and we are in the process of doing just that.

Mark Jacobs, still not on the Vault.

So congrats to Mythic, er, EA, er Mythic. LOOK NAMES ARE HARD.


40 Responses to Camelot, er Warhammer Herald, er, Vault, er, LOOK IT IS A WEBSITE AND YOU GET NEW CLASSES AND STUFF

  1. Apache says:

    They should just port Catacombs, the 3 epic dungeons, and Darkness Falls over to WAR. 🙂

  2. Freakazoid says:

    I like WAR, but I just couldn’t hang in there for new stuff. My brother will be glad to hear about choppas, as that was his original favorite class before they dropped it.

    What are the chances they will get another darkness falls right? DF was the first real open pvp I enjoyed in an MMO. It wasn’t just that, either. The circuit was just a crazy reward at the end, providing a decent grind from 40 to cap, and crafters would buy those jewel things for 1 plat at the pop. Then mythic had to ruined it. But, it was fun while it lasted.

  3. EpicSquirt says:

    You know what Mythic could do? Force GoA to merge the UK DAoC server (Dyvet) with other still populated servers.

    Then a couple of hundreds of players wouldn’t feel forced to play DAoC 0.9 that is Warhammer.

    Please no excuses of how this can’t be done because of language specific application / database issues.

    I stopped to play Warhammer after the first month, more and more people are coming back to play WoW, EVE or AoC – that’s what you get for letting EA Shanghai or whatever do the Elves, EA Bulgaria the Dwarves and so on – game is not of a piece.

    Is there a proper UI out by now for Warhammer (something like Mxn or NixUI or Ghost for DAoC was) or do people still have to live with that copy of WoW’s UI?

  4. Glasseye says:

    Wohoo! WAR continues to be my favorite MMO by far.

  5. Glasseye says:

    There are TONS of UI mods available. I’m fond of WARboard + Squared + NAMBLA

  6. Garthilk says:

    No mention of those official forums he just announced… Rosanne…?!?

  7. Mist says:

    The players are in full on revolt on just about every forum I’ve ever seen. All the announced changes are way too little, too late at this point. Endgame is just a huge stalemate fest, the only way to win is for the enemy to quit the game, which seems kinda likely at this point.

  8. Jeff says:

    An expansion 6 months after release? Anyone ELSE feel like this content should have been in at launch?

    I’m sorry, but I seem to remember a certain Mr. Jacobs promising not to release until the game was ready and polished. Clearly he, or EA, broke that promise. I played that game into T3, the imbalances in PvP, lack of in depth PVE content or low level dungeons and in general unfinished feeling of the game prompted most of my guild to up and leave.

    I wanted to love this game, and I left it having a hard time even liking it.

  9. Jeff says:

    Oh and lest I forget…

    Quite possibly the least diversified and lamest crafting system I have ever seen.

  10. Sullee says:

    The crafting system is beyond bad. What gets me most about WAR is that they’ve managed to fumble on a lot of the good things they did with DAOC whilst simultaneously repeating a lot of the mistakes.

    Unbelievably bad class and realm balance being the biggest issue IMO right now. They shouldn’t bother adding new classes until they’ve gotten at least a playable balance implemented. Right now it is a game with one side being far superior in cool factor and almost all class comparisions. I’m not even talking subjective bias, grass is greener stuff.. it is so far off there isn’t much fun in playing either side.

  11. Grimjakk says:

    Ah, Negativity, thy name is Interweb. 😉

  12. Jeff says:


    Right. It can’t be the truth because it is “negative”.

  13. Flimgoblin says:

    Wasn’t just me that thought ‘OMG! IGN have taken over the herald!’. Cut and paste for the lose 😉

    On the announcements though – more stuff is good! And choppas were fun even when they were rubbish way back in early beta. The new mechanic sounds a bit better than the original ‘be crap for a bit, go berserk and do some damage, be crap again’ so I’d expect them to be more fun.

    There’s something primal about going crazy chef-style with dual wield axes….

  14. Delmania says:

    This isn’t exacting unexpected. All throughout the prerelease cycle, despite what MJ, Paul, and others said, WAR was marketed to be the anti-WoW: a game with little or no gear grind whose focus is meaningful PvP in the form of RvR.

    Then they release a cheap WoW clone that bare bones elements for good RvR. Small areas RvR areas? Static siege pads? No siege towers or catapults? Keeps designed to drive a large group of people into a small foor? Advancement for RvR is faster through scenarios?

    Seriously, if they had just given use DAoC 2.0, the game would have been much better.

  15. Ashendarei says:

    “I’m sorry, but I seem to remember a certain Mr. Jacobs promising not to release until the game was ready and polished. Clearly he, or EA, broke that promise. I played that game into T3, the imbalances in PvP, lack of in depth PVE content or low level dungeons and in general unfinished feeling of the game prompted most of my guild to up and leave.”


    It never ceases to amaze me that people are surprised (or try to hold accountable for) at marketing / executive decisions that sacrifice quality for an expediant release.

    and I’m sure that if pressured MJ would say that he was “happy” with where the game was at release.

  16. EpicSquirt says:

    Yeah and no fanboism on the Interweb either!11

  17. dartwick says:

    I wish they would just remake DAoC with better combat mechanics.

  18. Occam says:

    I just wish they had not release WaR in the state it was/is.

    I am sick and tired of seeing such amateurism, can only Blizzard do it right ?

  19. Mist says:

    That’s the real problem with WAR. It seems like they tried really, really hard at Mythic and just didn’t pull it off.

  20. Jeff says:


    You’re right, my bad. I really thought MJ prided himself on being honest, I thought he was somewhat different.

    There is a price to be payed though, I for one will never buy another Mythic game. Even the few guildies of ours that decided to stay instead if migrating back to WoW (where most of us went, or CoH are mainly just blindly hoping the game will get better.

    I consider myself an MMORPG vet, I’ve played or beta’d most of the big ones since UO. Every single time I’ve had to pay to finish someone’s beta has made me a little less tolerant, to the point there is nothing in development that is even vaguely interesting to me other than SW:TOR.
    I realize it is still EA, but Bioware has always delivered rock solid products.

  21. Todd Ogrin says:

    “I wish they would just remake DAoC with better combat mechanics.”

    What, you didn’t like it when your caster would be unable to cast a spell for 10 seconds because a bad guy looked at you?

  22. Tide says:

    Official forums confirmed. Yes. Think on that.

  23. Iconic says:


    If the important stuff is outside of MJs control, then he can’t really make important promises. Holding him accountable doesn’t mean he’s an evil lying weasel, it just means that when he says something it’s not necessarily going to be true.

    WAR’s only hope for competing with WOW was to offer meaningful world PvP. Everything else they do is going to be a technological competition with a foe who has much deeper pockets. WAR has some very cool incremental advances with the Tome of Knowledge, being able to do scenarios within minutes of starting the game, and so on, but ultimately success or failure for WAR is all about world PvP.

  24. Mist says:

    The problem is it HAS fairly meaningful world PvP. It’s just too stagnant to actually be fun.

  25. Fraeg says:

    nifty….. great game on paper. When do the patch in a new engine that can actually handle the large scale rvr?

  26. Jeff says:


    I can see where you would say that. The world PvP is somewhat meaningful. But the problem is more than it being stagnant. It’s completely imbalanced, especially as you get into the higher tiers. Speaking as someone that has played both sides, those imbalances tend to favor destruction. Play a witch elf to 30 or so then play a with hunter to the same level, then come back and tell we which one is gimped and which one is on the verge of being OP.

    Let’s just say I had a lot more fun and was doing a lot better in RvR as a Witch Elf.

  27. Mist says:

    As much as people tend to focus on balance, it’s really secondary to providing a fun, rewarding, accessible path to the endgame content. I’m on the losing (order) end of the Order/Destruction balance equation, and yet, given the choice, I’d still rather they made the endgame more fluid than more balanced. I want the feeling that, if me and my guild try hard enough, we’d be able to get to the enemy city and receive the rewards for doing the content there. We can learn to adapt our playstyles around balance, but we can’t really adapt ourselves around a stagnant gameplay paradigm based largely around attritioning your opponent’s will to continue to subscribe to the game.

  28. ubvman says:


    If the important stuff is outside of MJs control, then he can’t really make important promises. Holding him accountable doesn’t mean he’s an evil lying weasel, it just means that when he says something it’s not necessarily going to be true.

    Thats a good a definition as any for “lying weasel”…
    Not necessarily evil but lying weasel nevertheless.

    The genre has got to outgrow the fanboi enablers that allow this sort of behavior as acceptable and normal. Really.

  29. Iconic says:


    It’s possible to be truthful and sincere and still turn out to be 100% wrong.

    It’s also possible to talk yourself in circles so much that everything you say is true at the moment you say it, but contradicts something else you said before, and something else you will say after.

    I definitely don’t think Mark Jacobs is a liar or a weasel, but I also don’t take much of what he says seriously, because he talks so much without always remembering what it is he has said.

    The bottom line for me is, if WAR was balanced and fun, I’d be playing it, but since it’s not (at least, it wasn’t when I was willing to try), I’m not. It almost doesn’t matter what MJ or Paul Barnett say or do because you can only do so much to sell a well intentioned but flawed product.

    I’d be interested to hear though what people think Mark has said or done that is clearly a lie and not simply a case of being mistaken.

  30. Goedel says:

    The big problem I have with Mythic is that instead of seizing the opportunity the quickly fix their game after a premature launch, they have sat on their thumbs while more and more players get into the endgmae and cancel. The longer Mythic goes without patching up the T4 experience, the more people that get fed up and cancel their subscriptions.

  31. EpicSquirt says:

    Mythic and meaningful PvP in one sentence – that made me cry.

  32. Mist says:

    EpicSquirt :
    Mythic and meaningful PvP in one sentence – that made me cry.

    It’s worthless comments like this that make me wonder why anyone would want to be a game developer. There’s been a total of 3 major NA titles with meaningful PvP and Mythic has made two of them. The problem with WAR isn’t a lack of meaning, its a lack of enjoyability. It’s the one PvP MMO I’ve played where winning isn’t noticably more fun than losing.

  33. EpicSquirt says:

    If the PvP (and in reality you mean RvR here, as the 1 vs 1 in both DAoC and Warhammer are a joke (Mythic self said that they don’t balance around small scale PvP) in DAoC or Warhammer would have any meaning then the results would have meaningful effects on the overall world; by effects I don’t mean a bonus of 10% to spell damage.

    So in DAoC you had your 100 vs 100 keep and relic battles and early in the morning 6 people took the relics back, a neverending conflict of bullshit, totally decoupled from the market, no real effects on the world, no extinction of the parties fighting each other possible and so on. RvR in DAoC was a RP racing simulator, nothing else. What kept it alive was a bunch of guilds running their 8-men parties – you can notice that alone by looking at the server populations and the annoucements of guilds to move from a particular server to a different one and the effect on a server population (at some point when too many active 8 vs 8 guilds moved off, many DAoC servers just died). I’d like to add that many of the 8 man guilds never cared for RvR, they only surfed the zerg to for easy realm points.

    In Warhammer the endgame RvR is so horribly broken, it is EvE (exploit vs exploit).

    Once upon a time EVE Online had a meaninful PvP, that went down the toilet with POS warfare, capital ship blobwarfare and the moon mining exploit.

    All games have very enjoyable aspects, but the PvP is pretty pointless.

    Please define meaningful PvP, but don’t use games based heavily on PvE for comparisons but Hasbro’s Risk instead – it had more PvP than DAoC or Warhammer will ever have.

  34. Mist says:

    I don’t debate with obvious trolls.

  35. Axecleaver says:

    I loved DAOC and had my most memorable PvP experiences there. I (and my guildmates) wanted to love WAR. We had fun up to about t3. Then, inexplicably, people just stopped logging on as much. We talked about it and had a really hard time coming up with a good answer for why. We still wanted to love the game, but we couldn’t make that connection like we were able to in DAOC.

    I still can’t tell you exactly what the problem is – I think it has something to do with the railgun combat pace. Once you get to t4, people die early and often. Then they get back to the front lines very fast. I guess I was hoping for a slower, more tactical combat experience, and without that it’s hard to capture that “I can’t wait to get home from work and kill some elves” feeling.

  36. EpicSquirt says:

    Mist :
    I don’t debate with obvious trolls.

    No, you don’t debate at all, you just legend build. Kinda like Mark Jacobs when saying that “Mythic delivers more value for the money than any other MMORPG competitor” when annoucing two classes which were originally promised for realease while ignoring that one had to pay for at least 2 accounts in DAoC (buff bots) to be on par with other players.

    That was indeed a big problem, people just DPS’ed something, it couldn’t be healed. Are the healing specced WPs and DoK’s helping with that?

  37. Hatch says:


    I was pretty hardcore 8v8. Logging into WAR was like being sentenced to a life term with WOW players in BG. In fact it wasn’t like it, I actually was doomed to sit in a BG all night with no real tactics playing with WOW players against WOW players. I can only describe this to non gamers as feeling like I was the only normal kid in a class for downs syndrome people.

  38. Sweetmeat says:

    Well I played DAoC for several years, and I’m liking WAR pretty much as much as I liked DAoC or more. I remember after launch DAoC was in much worse shape than WAR is so I suspect all the gloom and doom is over hyped. On the other hand, my friends and I are pretty casual players and we haven’t done much in T4 yet because we’ve been playing different alts as more friends join us. The first patch went a long way to fixing many of my concerns with the game. Perhaps for really hard core gamers they may just want to wait a year and try it again. For me I’m enjoying it a great deal, and we have more friends/family members still joining at this point with very few losing interest so far.

    For those who race to the end of a new game – what did you expect was going to happen? EQ, DAoC, EQ2, WoW, CoH, D&D online, and LoTRO all have proven each and every time that sprinting for the finish of a new game is just going to discourage you. Meanwhile I’ve been playing a lot, and enjoying the hell out of a variety of alts in Tiers 2 and 3 and some in Tier 4 as well. I have to admit there have been several instances in T4 where the combination of higher level powers pretty well break game balance. I don’t have an answer for that, but the game is still young.

    All that said, I don’t think it will ever be the next WoW. You have to actually enjoy heeding the call of your realm to go out and bust heads when and where needed. Lots of people aren’t really wired for that aspect giving it a smaller population base. I still expect it to be successful and profitable for Mythic.

  39. Garthilk says:

    Only 300k subscribers,

    Looks like EA is wondering where their subscribers went and has demanded someone change his tune.

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